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March 26, 2009

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I recently had an interesting conversation, when I mentionned 1949's movie Border Incident, which starred Ricardo Montalban. He plays a Mexican immigration agent who passes himself off as an illegal because some of his fellow countrymen are getting killed north of the border. The other person felt that the illegals were getting their just desserts, because they were breaking the law. That was a rather strange position, coming from a legal immigrant from Ukraine.

I think this is a great idea and I would definitely support a similar card if it was proposed in my state (where immigration is also a huge hot-button issue). I especially like that it can also serve as a library card and a debit for meters. Multi-purpose cards are a boon for overflowing wallets.

AJ... Multi-purpose cards are a boon for overflowing wallets

...and a curse to people who tend to misplace things. Of course I'm not referring to wife. That'd be ungentlemanly.

Susan... About your being carded, we know that you like sheep, but isn't this going a bit too far?
Whoa.
That frying pan almost hit me.

On the one hand, it's cool that you got the card. On the other hand, I can't help but think of Heinleins dictum that when a society has gotten crowded enough to need ID cards, it's time to move elsewhere... :-)

Michael,
I gather you have similar objections to driver's licenses and passports? Since we already have both of those, I fear the ID card ship has already sailed.

I do have some issues with government ID, and the card's usability in parking meters strikes me as potentially problematic. I don't have EZ-Pass because of similar concerns. On the other hand, the city already knows where I live through at least four different agencies, so I'm not giving them new information, and the value of the card in protecting others outweighs this.

It did occur to me that if these IDs were used unofficially as a proxy for illegality that with my Spanish surname I'm probably actually inviting trouble by using it. I decided to listen to my better nature instead of my paranoia.

Serge,
I like sheep. I dislike having my picture taken. I further dislike having it posted. I further dislike having it linked to and pointed out to people.

while California was busy making headlines last year, Connecticut quietly started legally marrying gay couples.

Is Connecticut so below the radar of the bigots that the latter didn't notice what it was doing? Or was its quiet approach the one that California should have taken? I'm not sure that would have worked either, even if it were in the state's nature to do anything quietly. I expect that the bigots mentionned above always have California in their sights, and are ready to 'shoot' even when it just twitches. Maybe they think that, if the Union's state with a population close to all of Canada's is allowed to legalize these degenerate acts, the whole country will fall like a house of cards, but not if Connecticut does it.

Good job, Susan! I expect Virginia will be one of the last states to help illegal immigrants, if they ever do.

I don't actually object to the ID cards as much as Heinlein did. (Or rather, Heinlein's character Lazarus Long.) But there's something about a national ID card that makes me uncomfortable, possibly because it reminds me of the whole "Your papers, please" concept.

Michael,
Well, this is only the city, and the federal government (under Bush, at least) hates it. And it's alternate "papers" -- I could just use my driver's license.

I'm increasingly annoyed by the number of businesses that seem to feel they are entitled to my SS# for ID. I'm starting to lose track of all the fake ones I hand out to places like Hollywood Video which I do not see as having any need whatsoever for the real one. Isn't using it for ID supposed to be illegal for private businesses?

Michael... On the other hand, we already are living the whole "Your papers, please" concept.

Susan, look at it this way: By getting the card and having a Spanish surname, you're screwing up their statistics.

It isn't illegal for anyone to ask for your SS#. You don't have to provide it. (But they don't have to do business with you.) It's not like SS#'s are any sort of secret any more; only stupid companies think that knowing it proves anything.

This is of course assuming that anyone actually figures out that my surname is Spanish. Most people around here assume it's Italian.

Is Connecticut so below the radar of the bigots that the latter didn't notice what it was doing? Or was its quiet approach the one that California should have taken?

It's small, and it was done fairly quietly and in two stages. The legislature approved civil unions a couple of years ago without court involvement. That was then challenged and the court mandated marriage. So there wasn't one single big change, but two smaller ones. And Connecticut is not as prone to dramatic, eye-catching protests as, say, San Francisco, and we didn't have any exciting mayoral civil disobedience or anything. I guess it's just not done here. We just very slowly plow on along doing the right thing.

It's also possible that since we're part of the den of sinfulness which is blue New England, home of the occasional moderate Republican, the right-wingers have just given up on us.

Also of note recently is that New Hampshire's legislature is passing similar legislation and that Iowa's court rules on the topic tomorrow. Neither of these is making big headlines either.

Still, Susan, I wonder if California would have succeeded even if it had taken a less dramatic spproach. Well, the bottom line is that the door has been pried open and, before you know it, New England's sinfulness will have spilled all over America the Beautiful.

Susan... I like sheep.

Even sheep in wainscotting ?

By the by, Iowa's Supreme Court followed suit this morning and legalized same-sex marriage there. First state in the Midwest to do so. That made the New York Times website front page.

Susan... To quote the town drunk in Hitchcock's The Birds...

It's the end of the world!!!

Iowa Rep. Steve King warns that this might turn his state into a gay marriage Mecca. That sounds better that the Governator's dire warnings against a Gay Apocalypse a few years ago when San Francisco's mayor authorized the issuing of marriage licenses to same-sex couples.

Yaaaay Iowa!

Iowa Rep. Steve King warns that this might turn his state into a gay marriage Mecca.

I feel like checking which direction Boise is already, so I can pray in that direction.

It's a little south of west. But should I take the great circle direction which will be north of west? I'll look into it tomorrow (being none of gay, married or religious, I feel no urgency in aligning my prayer mats).

Boise is in Idaho....

Des Moines. Stll South of West.

You know, you should only allow one state with the same initial letter in the union. that would make it easier for ignorant foreigners.

(Yes, 24 states will have to use greek or cyrillic letters. I'll still find it easier to tell them apart).


(Idaho: potato and panhandle; Iowa: corn and that big bend in the Mississippi river. Okay, got it.)

Iowa? Think corn fields, ghosts and baseball, all in the same wonderful movie.

If it's any consolation, I know nothing about the geography of any other country. We're all "ignorant foreigners" to someone ;)

AJ... Where is Québec?

Being a defiantly coastal sort of person, I am suspicious of all those states with what I consider an excessive proportion of vowels anyway. But Iowa's Court done good today.

I will point out that for those who wish to stalk other Rixo commenters (and lurkers), there is a map at upper right which portrays you all as glowing red dots (sort of like the aggressive laser pointers in Starcrash) and lists what towns your ISPs think you are visiting from. So that might be a starting point for a geography lesson.

I personally wish the lurker from Krk, Croatia, would speak up.

There's also someone in Mexico. I think I'm the red dot slightly to the northwest of the one near the Gulf of Mexico.

Serge, Quebec is somewhere between British Columbia and Newfoundland, and that's about as far as I can narrow it down ;)

I'd like to blame my ignorance on homeschooling, but I'm guessing a lot of public school students couldn't place Quebec on the map, either, since a lot of them can't even place our own states on the map.

AJ... I was teasing you. Heck, most people don't pay attention to geography unless they have to. I am reminded of one of the last things that someone said in TV series MASH:

"Vietnam? Where is that?"

Québec is north of Vermont, 5.5 hours from where I live. I know this because I looked up driving directions for Anticipation when I was deciding whether or not it made sense to take the train (no) rather than get a carpool together.

There's a timed test here where you have to name all fifty US states in ten minutes. I sometimes succeed and sometimes forget one or two, which is very embarrassing.

I think your map thinks I'm in High Wycombe. Which is where my brother's Godmother lives. (She would be my godmother too except she was in Sarawak when I was christened).

...I am suspicious of all those states with what I consider an excessive proportion of vowels anyway... I personally wish the lurker from Krk, Croatia, would speak up.

If it weren't insulting to all slavic languages, I'd suggest sending them some of the excess vowels from the American Midwest.

As for Québec, apart from having been in Montreal for 5 days 20 years ago, I know where it is, as it was settled early from the sea, so looking from the east, you head between Newfoundland and Nova Scotia (the big island and not-quite island off the eastern coast) and then start colouring in the coasts of the St Lawrence seaway until you run into the United States and have to abandon your firewood.

There's an enormous expanse to the north as well, but I get dizzy just thinking about it.

I was in Montreal for a few days when I was two but do not remember the experience. I'm looking forward to worldcon. I hadn't realized how close Montreal was to me (closer than Baltimore!) so I feel a bit silly for not having made any trips there on my own.

Speaking of Croatia, a little google-searching suggests to me that "Zdunich" (the surname of the Repo actor-writer-lyricist-composer-artist) is Croatian. He pronounces it zuh-doon-itch. So maybe they already have an ample supply of vowels which are just invisible and extremely skinny and thus not obvious in print?

Still, Susan, I wonder if California would have succeeded even if it had taken a less dramatic spproach. Well, the bottom line is that the door has been pried open and, before you know it, New England's sinfulness will have spilled all over America the Beautiful.

California hasn't entirely not-succeeded. It's just taken a colossal step backward that's going to take years to undo. In the meantime, perhaps Californians will choose to spend their money on getting married in Iowa and Connecticut since (AHEM) neither state has a residency requirement.

"New England's sinfulness" HA HA HA HA HA. How things do change (from the perspective of centuries).

I do like the sheep in Wainscotting. I'd never seen that sketch before. I was thinking "sounds like a small English village" even before they made the joke.

I thought the cricketers in the laboratory were just as funny, though.

Neil:
Don't worry, you have lots of camouflage. There are also visits from Aylsbury and Thatcham.

The last time I went to Quebec was after the 2004 worldcon in Boston. That felt strange. Boston in 1980 had been my first worlcon and I had driven with some buddies from Quebec City. In 2004 I followed the exact same road, but in reverse. (Mind you, the car wasn't going in reverse. You know what I mean.) The only difference is that I was by myself, and I was now citizen of another country. What shocked me was how little time it took to get there, without a bunch of clowns who'd stop all too frequently for whatever reason struck their whim. By the way, do not cross the border at the end of the Labor Day weekend.

About California and years to undo the damage of the Prop 8 nastiness... Yesterday, I wrote to a homosexual buddy I used to work with and who still lives in SF. When I asked if he'd heard the news about Iowa, he was ecstatic, and optimistic that, one day, soon, he'll be able to marry another man if he so chooses.

I've crossed the border at the end of Labor Day weekend and the end of the July 4th holiday weekend (Canada Day?) It pretty much sucks, though I've found the July one worse than the September one. Won't be an issue with this year's worldcon.

The July crossing is worse than September's? Goodness. I dare not contemplate how abysmally sucky July's must be. By the way, Susan, planning to bring wood across the border?

Regarding the difference in approach between New England and California... I wonder if things would show less progress if not for California's confrontational attitude. Someone breaks ground, gets the powers-that-be and the average folks upset because they are publicly doing and saying what 'should' be done and said privately. Still, it gets some of the average people thinking. Later, others who feel the same way as the loud complainers have it a bit easier when the make their case. I dunno.

Serge, I actually really enjoyed geography as a kid, but I only ended up learning US geography.

I suppose there's no real reason to NEED to know world geography, which is why most people are ignorant of it, but it still feels a little weird to live in a world and not know where a lot of its countries are.

AJ... I actually really enjoyed geography as a kid

I wonder if what makes SF fans become SF fans also makes them tend to learn just because. The problem is when we've had leaders who don't like learning, and who learn no more than is necessary.

What is it that Ambrose Bierce once said?

"War is God's way to teach Americans about geography."

Bierce was a clever man, but I think he might be wrong in this case... I don't think most Americans bother to learn where the countries we're at war with are.

It does seem like a lot of SF fans do have a love of learning, though, but I think that could also be said of most avid readers of most genres.

AJ... Maybe Bierce was being generous.

Or maybe back then, people DID learn geography during the war. They didn't have things like the Internet to distract them ;)

AJ... Speaking of Bierce, it's my understanding that nobody knows how he died because, after deciding America wasn't for him anymore (what with things going on like women demanding the right to vote), he moved to Mexico and just disappeared.

My understanding is that he went to Mexico because he was interested in what was happening there at the time, not so much because he wanted to avoid what was happening at home.

What was happening in Mexico at the time was the Revolution, and he went and watched it from up close, so it's generally considered most probable that he copped a bullet and wound up in an unmarked grave somewhere.

(I read a short story once that begins with Bierce about to be dealt summary execution by Mexican soldiers, when time freezes and a guy in a silver jumpsuit appears and says, "Ambrose Bierce, I'm from the future and I've come to save your life by taking you back with me. It'll be fine, history says you just disappeared. Coming?"

And Bierce says no. Because after all he wrote "An Occurrence at Owl Creek Bridge", so he knows how this is likely to end, and even if it doesn't he doesn't want to spend the rest of his life worrying that it's going to.)

Paul A... I stand corrected, and relievedly so, about why Bierce left America. Now, I am curious to see Old Gringo, Gregory Peck's last movie, and in which he played Bierce.

As for Incident... I remember reading a review Jacob's Ladder that made a reference to that story. I was bummed. I hope that reviewer never told his readers who Rosebud was.

I wonder if things would show less progress if not for California's confrontational attitude.

There always needs to be someone to be confrontational and someone to work quietly. That's how progress gets made. Sometimes it can be the same person. Did you see Milk yet? He was doing a pretty good job of playing both roles at once.

I haven't read anything by Bierce except The Devil's Dictionary, but I loved that.

I just went and read "An Occurrence at Owl Creek Bridge." Nice work by Bierce.

Susan... I had very much wanted to see Milk at the Castro when I was in San Francisco, back in February, but it didn't work out. I just realized that it's out on DVD. Somehow I missed the ads about its release, but it's now on top of my queue.

As for taking the quiet approach to get what one wants... I had been doing that at work, but, a few days ago, I realized that my manager had done nothing to keep that promise made as part of my yearly review almost two months ago. I switched back to the confrontational approach. My threats to go to Personnel may not get me what I want, but they sure scared the boss.

About Bierce... My apologies for goofing up on the title of Bierce's Owl Creek story. I should probably look up more of his stuff. (Like I have enough time for all the books I have already lined up.)

We have a book containing all of Bierce's fiction (as well as two copies of Devil's Dictionary). The cool thing? It was one of my husband's college text books.

You see, his teacher wanted to teach a class on early American horror authors, but the college turned it down. So she decided to teach a literature class instead, and they didn't tell her what literature she had to teach, so it was American horror :) They covered Poe, Lovecraft, and Bierce.

Wow, that is one cool idea for a literature class!

I know! I'd take that class in a heartbeat.

Another theory, put forward by Phil Foglio in one of his comics, is that Ambrose Bierce's horror pieces were actually based on true stories, and he went to ground because a blasphemous creature from beyond time had read the story he wrote about it and was coming to complain about his portrayal. According to this theory, Bierce is still out there somewhere - and perhaps, one day, if you're being pestered by blasphemous creatures from beyond time...

Paul A... That sounds like the premise of a SciFi Channel movie I'd wnt to watch.

And next up on the marriage equality front: Vermont!

This one did make the New York Times website front page.

Another theory, put forward by Phil Foglio in one of his comics

Where? Where?

Susan... Vermont too. New England's sinfulness is spreading.

Yes, the Vermont law was the leader on the midday TV news!

Any chance some of that New England sinfulness can spread this way? I'm sick of my state being so backwards.

Yesterday, the DC Council voted to accept same-sex marriages from other states, which will be interesting because every DC bill has to be approved by Congress.

Marilee... So many things... I wonder if all of them would have happened with a Republican in the Oval Office.

AJ:
Here is the projected schedule for the expansion of sinfulness, based on the calculations of Nate at fivethirtyeight.com.

So, New Mexico is at least 6 years away from drowning in sinfulness? The day that happens will be interesting since we're one mile above sea level.

Don't you folks realize the danger of allowing this?!!! If two women can marry each other, and if they have a son, the boy might grow up liking girls. He might even want to have sex with them!!!

Wait.
Oh.
Nevermind.

Serge, looks like I'll be drowning in sin before you are.

Oh wait, I can swim. I guess I'll be fine.

Good for you, AJ. Me, I swim with the grace of a rock. As for the sinfulness having originated from New England, I am reminded of this exchange from 1776:

[Jefferson's wife visits, and they retire behind closed doors]

John Adams: Good God, you don't mean... they're not going to...? In the middle of the afternoon?

Dr. Benjamin Franklin: Not everybody's from Boston, John!

LOL Serge.

Actually, I have about the grace of a rock, too. I guess I might swim better now than I did the last time I tried. I was a teen then, and I have a little more padding on me now to help with the floating, and more coordination from all the dancing. But I still avoid pool parties just in case.

However, I would learn to swim just to avoid drowning in sin ;)

I can swim fairly well. I even had junior lifesaving training long, long ago.

I guess that means I can just revel in sin without drowning in it?

I found the following today in Salon.com:

The New York Times reports that on Thursday New York Gov. David Paterson, will announce plans to introduce legislation to legalize same-sex marriage in the state. The news doesn't come as a complete surprise, as just last week, Paterson indicated that he wanted to put forward such a measure in order to force New York lawmakers to take a stand on the issue.

That New England sinfulness spreads further and further.

LOL Susan! When I was tall and skinny, I still had to push down every stroke so I could stay underwater. We had an in-ground backyard pool when we were stationed in Virginia Beach and I used to come home from scbool and just sleep directly on the water. Until my brother got home and cannonballed.

I took part in a junior lifesaving test once, but as a rescuee. I wasn't the first choice, as I was six inches taller than my friend who was taking the test and at the time was not a natural floater. However I was the only choice who could get my swimming costume from home and get back to the school on time when his original floating body fell ill.

So I guess I'm qualified to splash about and pretend to drown in sin.

Neil... his original floating body fell ill

There is something sinister about those words.

When I did the lifesaving course at camp we had to rescue a counselor who was extremely tall and husky, even more so compared to us kids. Fortunately we didn't have to get her all the way out of the water, just to a dock where we could support her upper body above water easily while hanging on ourselves. She did not make it easy.

Another theory, put forward by Phil Foglio in one of his comics

Where? Where?


This was in the Stanley and His Monster miniseries Foglio did for DC Comics in the early 1990s; Bierce shows up to help Stanley rescue the Monster.

It was originally supposed to be John Constantine, but DC wouldn't allow it, in case small children decided they wanted to read more of his adventures (which, if you know about Constantine, you know are generally not appropriate for small children). One of those cases where being forbidden to do something allows/requires a writer to be a bit more creative than he would otherwise have been.

Paul A... if you know about Constantine, you know are generally not appropriate for small children

I guess they might be traumatized by the scene where Constantine cuts an angel's wings off with a chainsaw.

Did you know that an eagle with the head of a king chewing on its own wing is an alchemical symbol?

I didn't know, Susan. What is it a symbol for?

"Without hope, the Universe gives up."

I watched Milk tonight.

I found the following today in Salon.com about California's gubernatorial race, about San Francisco's Gavin Newsom:

Newsom will have to work hard if he's going to pull off what would be a come-from-behind victory. According to a Field Poll conducted last month, Newsom is running third behind two other Democrats who could enter the race for their party's nomination, state Attorney General Jerry Brown and Los Angeles Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa. And if Democratic Sen. Dianne Feinstein jumps in the race, she'd lead all three by a wide margin.

I'm curious if Newsom will resume his fight to make same-sex marriage legal.

Serge:
He can't do anything directly even if he becomes governor (which I think is unlikely). They have to pass another constitutional amendment to allow it. He could campaign for it, of course, but he's such a lightning rod that his help is sort of a mixed blessing at this point.

The alchemical symbol is from something called the Ripley Scroll and is known as the Bird of Hermes. It's said to represent mercury, and eating its own wings tames it, meaning stabilizes it.

Still, Susan, one could hope that one of the candidates will campaing for it. As for Newsom being a lightning rod, that's true, but anybody who comes out in favor of same-sex marriage will de facto become a lightning rod. Unless enough of that New England sinfulness seeps all the way to the West Coast.

Serge:
Did you pay any attention to the campaign at all? The Prop 8 ad using Newsom's "whether you like it or not" comment was one of the most successful ads of the campaign and may have tipped the balance in favor of Prop 8. I respect his position and willingness to back it up with action, but frankly, we don't need any more help like that.

Calling respect for others' rights "New England sinfulness" was funny once, but like most jokes it gets less and less funny every time it's repeated.

I shall retire that joke, then.

Maine governor John Baldacci signs same-sex marriage into law

Next up: New Hampshire!

MASH's David Ogden Stiers has come out of the closet.
Good for him.

California's Supreme Court overturns the gay-marriage ban.
Yay!

It's from before Prop 8.
Damn.

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